Ian McKellen said he couldn’t come out as gay because of me, says former lover
Sean Mathias has directed Ian McKellen in over thirty productions. In this wide-ranging interview, he talks to Adam Bloodworth about the strength of their working relationship, which spans over 30 productions, and thinks back to their personal relationship, as the duo’s new London theatre show, Frank and Percy, opens in the capital
There can’t be many directors and actors who’ve worked together over 15 times, certainly not ones who were lovers for a decent chunk of that. Sean Mathias and Ian McKellen first met at the Edinburgh Fringe in 1978 and were together romantically until 1988. In the 35 years since, they’ve made a formidable pairing, collaborating on the award-winning film version of the play Bent, and on 2013’s Waiting for Godot with Patrick Stewart that became the highest grossing show ever to play at the Wyndham’s Theatre.
Last year, Mathias directed McKellen in a feature film version of his 2021 Hamlet, and in 2019 directed Ian McKellen Onstage, the 84-year-old acting legend’s one man show. Mathias began his career as an actor, and later writer, but has been prolific as a theatre director, with more than 30 credits to his name, including a What’sOnStage Award and Critics’ Circle Award-winning productions.
I meet him Upstairs at The Other Palace theatre, luxuriating with a glass of sauvignon blanc after an “exhausting” rehearsal for Frank and Percy, a new two-hander starring – yep, you guessed it – Ian McKellen. Mathias says working together again was absolutely the last thing either had planned. “We need a break from each other. We need to find new ways and new things and he thought that was very sensible,” says Mathias. “And what happens? This play lands in my lap. And I thought, for fuck’s sakes, I’ve got to show this to Ian.”
Frank and Percy is a new piece of writing by Ben Weatherill about two ageing men’s evolving relationship. It features McKellen as an 80-year-old called Percy who meets a slightly younger gentleman with whom he falls into a romance with. Mathias says the play is about intellectualism, activism, and anger. For one thing, McKellen’s character Percy gets cancelled for his beliefs about topics including climate change. “This play is very here and now and I love that.” McKellen arrives to Frank and Percy fresh from a regional touring production of Mother Goose, in which he runs around for hours in drag wearing high heels. In fact, for the lion’s share of his recent past he has been treading the boards; quite the unconventional way for anyone to spend their mid-eighties. At 67, you can feel Mathias has a similar zest for life, and for creating important work (he says he loves representing the interesting things older people get up to), though he questions whether he wants to carry on directing. “I love the creative process, I don’t really love the organisational”.
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How often does he and McKellen ponder over the past? “It can be lovely to be nostalgic but you’ve got to be part of life now,” he says. “I can’t remember my life,” he adds, slightly unbelievably. Mathias is gracious and open when I ask about his relationship with McKellen, perhaps surprisingly so. He’d rather talk about the themes than the specifics, however, sometimes answering by talking vaguely about the era of their relationship, and it isn’t clear whether he’s referring to a memory with McKellen or another one entirely.
Ian came out when we broke up and he said, which I always thought was unfair of him and not true, that he couldn’t come out before because of me. He felt he was trying to protect me as I was that much younger, and I’m sure he felt that, but I don’t think it was strictly true.
Sean Mathias on Ian McKellen coming out as gay shortly after the couple broke up in 1988
There are many reasons it may be hard to bring up: it was a different age. Both McKellen and Mathias were closeted throughout their relationship; when they first got together it had been under a decade since legalisation. Stigma and discretion were the others of the day, and then there was AIDS. “You couldn’t come out then, you’re out to your friends but you couldn’t come out.”
Mathias says of their relationship: “We did go clubbing together, I used to go to Heaven every single night, I loved dancing and taking drugs, it was just fun. I’ll go out now occasionally – I party in someone’s home, I prefer that, I don’t really like the rough and tumble.” The dance floor might be a metaphor for how Mathias and his lifelong working partner McKellen differ. “He’s not as open as I am, we’re very different,” says Mathias. “He can go out and have such a good time, and also he loves being a star with his public. It turns him on. He’ll sign every fan’s autograph, he’ll shake everyone’s hand, he’s the Joan Crawford of our times. Whereas I like to sit down and have a chat with someone, really have a good heart to heart.”
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A gossip column eventually outed them in the Daily Express. “That poor lad, he went after us a bit, and a few others picked it up and a few of the raaaaags (he says the word with added actor panache) sort of attacked us. And then that poor lad got killed in the Harrods bombing. I’ll never forget that feeling. There was something nasty about that boy, he was a bit homophobic about it, and now he’s been killed. I cant connect the two things but obviously it was shocking. Anyway, it was unpleasant. He was a cute thing, a young guy, might have even been gay.”
McKellen and Mathias broke up in 1988, “And then Ian came out when we broke up and he said, which I always thought was unfair of him and not true, that he couldn’t come out before because of me. But I didn’t think that was true. I always thought that was a lie he told. I feel that he could have come out, he could have just talked to me.
“He felt he was trying to protect me as I was that much younger and I’m sure he felt that, but I don’t think it was strictly true. He could have come out, and I would have supported him. But anyway he did come out and I think he’s been unbelievably brave and has been a serious leader of things.” Mathias came out to his mother later, who was shocked. “I said well, what did you think me and Ian were doing sleeping in the same bed? She said ‘I thought you were friends.’ My mother was quite a camp and wonderfully vivacious character and adored gay men. And she acted totally shocked.”
Thirty-five years since the romance died out, Mathias talks fascinatingly and with precision about McKellen as an actor, likely with more authority than anyone else, having directed the Lord of the Rings legend from the side of the stage for almost half a century. He describes McKellen as “so expert”, and “academic” in his approach to theatre. “Sometimes he’s too serious and I have to say to him, ‘this is funny, this is fun’. The biggest difference between us is he’s more literal. I’m more detailed and exploratory but he has to understand things absolutely literally.
“He’s a brilliant comedian, he’s got amazing timing, he’s very good at mining the text for the subtext. He approaches everything physically as well, he’s very physical as an actor, he will put in his whole body. When we did Hamlet he looked probably 80 but within a few minutes you’d forgotten because he was just so agile and athletic.”
I had been holding off from asking anything overt about their personal relationship, but Mathias had been warm and gracious, and surprisingly open, so I found myself asking a comically romantic question: what was the essence of their relationship? He made a mouth noise while drinking a gulp of wine. “Oooh, you’ll have to move on now Adam, I’ve given you more than enough! Wait for my memoir.” Ooh, a memoir, I say. Then I suggest he should save the juiciest stories for his publisher. “Yes I know,” he says through laughter. “I think Ian’s really scared!”
Frank and Percy plays at The Other Palace Theatre until 3 December; there’s no release date yet for Sean Mathias’ memoirs